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Talk:Gloves
Those .gifs Is it possbile for you to make them less slow/glitchy? I do appreciate you for helping out though. --Amannamedblarg 20:42, 18 May 2009 (UTC) ok Aviery: Uh, I don't really know how to add a new table thing under the glove stats for the notes, so could someone put down that the mach knuckle has no splash? ty. New table design The new table design has been discussed at Talk:Swords. Please leave your comments about the design there, unless they are not meant in particular for the gloves table. --Justme2 12:06, 17 June 2009 (UTC) Information section? I think we should add something like a section with information, or we could create individual articles for each of the weapons, and still keep the article. I saw what they did at the japanese wiki, and i want to increase our level of quality of that or higher. This is an amazing wiki, and i would like to see it even better. PancakesOfGruntiness 01:20, February 26, 2010 (UTC) Yeah I agree with you but individuals? That would be too much work. Guineapig5555 08:43 March 27, 2012 (UTC) Needle Knuckle Bonus AT Does anyone know how many needles are released in the Needle Knuckle's bonus attack? I think it's approximately 15. Mmi203 00:17, May 29, 2010 (UTC) Spark Knuckle Bonus AT How 'bout the Spark Knuckle? 8 or so? Mmi203 19:29, July 16, 2010 (UTC) I worked really hard and get the conclusion that there are 8 sparks released. I counted how many numbers popped out from a enemy after all the sparks hit on an enemy. Ivan247 06:04, July 17, 2010 (UTC) Graffiti Matter People are vandilising this forum!! I mean, somebody wrote that gloves sell for 900000 or so. Stop this now, for god's sake, you're ruining the perfectness and cheatingness of the game!! Please fix this. AND NO MORE GRAFFITI!!! (P.S. I think Glove sold for 12. I dunno) 02:38, January 8, 2011 (UTC)4321x6 (I'm pretty sure I had an account here... under one of my names...) 02:38, January 8, 2011 (UTC) Weapons and the Junk Shop So I noticed looking at the article that the Charge Glove isn't noted in it's row as being from the Junk Shop. So I've been wonering, should the junk shop weapons get "Bought from Junk Shop" noted in their Drop sections? 16:18, February 24, 2012 (UTC) More fan-ball looking? I noticed the Mach Claw have a similarity with my Mach Claw idea ; It have very high AT. My idea was overpowered, and it have then been made as the strongest Boxer Weapon in the game, but less strong. Coincidence or reality? Poisonshot ProfileTalk 23:15, September 13, 2012 (UTC) Sonic Knuckle's splash clouds Since there's 9 clouds for splash damage, does that mean each punch can hit the same enemy (main target) 10 times, or is it just for show even though Bullet's Card can be added? RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 23:55, July 31, 2013 (UTC) The clouds are there just for the effect. Ivan247Talk Page 07:13, August 1, 2013 (UTC) So it only means that the area of attack is bigger than normal gloves? Yathimc (talk) 07:38, August 1, 2013 (UTC) Um.... does "effect" mean "show-off effect" or "damage effect"? I'm gonna guess "show-off effect" from the way you used it, but I'm not really sure. RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 19:33, August 1, 2013 (UTC) It's just here for show. It only marks how big Sonic Knuckle's splash radius is, but it's mostly here for show. Just like the Missile's clouds; they're harmless. Samuel17 (talk) 21:03, August 1, 2013 (UTC) .... Huh. Thus why it's strange that they let you waste a Bullet's Card on it if you want then. Wonder if it would've killed ha55ii to make the splash clouds a time-based effect like the effects of most of the swords then, rather than leave an opening for players to waste a useful item on something that doesn't even do damage. I'll wait for Ivan to confirm just to be sure, but you're actually pretty good too, so I figure you're probably right. RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 22:53, August 1, 2013 (UTC) One thing I just thought of- if you equip a Bullet's Card to either Sonic Knuckle or Sonic Claw, does it increase the splash range? That would make the option to equip the Bullet's Card make a little more sense at least, though I personally still probably wouldn't do it unless the splash range increase is extreme. RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 00:11, December 28, 2013 (UTC) Still no effect. Ivan247Talk Page 04:55, December 28, 2013 (UTC) Thought so- just had to double-check after seeing how in Monster Box, as the Boxer's "Range" upgrade goes up, more of the little waves that mark the splash area start appearing for every punch. Thanks for confirming though. :) RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 05:17, December 28, 2013 (UTC) Instead of expanding, the clouds just stack together. Ivan247Talk Page 06:48, December 28, 2013 (UTC) Man.... ha55ii really does do some strange stuff with Stick Ranger sometimes. Is the 'multiple bullets' coding that much easier to do than the 'so-many-bullets-over-time' coding? And this isn't the only weird thing ha55ii has done. Ice Orb. Why bother making a level 6 weapon that countless level 1-4 weapons are better than? (This opinion of mine, I will be very surprised if it turns out isn't one others share too). Mountaintop weapons. Why couldn't ha55ii just make one for each class? What's so special about the Sniper and Gunner? I mean, I dunno. Maybe ha55ii is planning on doing the other 6 boss-rush-end-only weapons on the next boss rush stage(s). (If ha55ii made one boss rush stage, logic says either that volcano or the final castle will be the next boss rush stage. Unless, of course, not doing that for either of the two places is gonna be ha55ii's next weird thing done to Stick Ranger). Still, though. Anyway, enough with me and my habit of answering each short sentence said to me with a paragraph. ;P RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 07:22, December 28, 2013 (UTC) Poison Claw's Bonus AT The reason I wanted to add projectile counts to the AT of weapons was to make AT on a single enemy readily apparent. If a reader is just glancing through the weapon list and they see a Poison weapon with a "x3" next to it's Bonus AT without reading the fine print, they're no doubt going to think that the "x3" means that it stacks when it doesn't. Since you've been at the wiki much longer than me though Ivan, I'll respect your call on the matter as the final call. RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 08:34, August 18, 2015 (UTC) I think it's still better for me to express my views here even though you've seen that in the edit summary. While we can see the projectile count is x the actual damage can be less than kx where k is the damage per projectile for various reasons, including poison damage lost from non-stacking poison and also missed projectiles. For simplistic reasons I believe that projectile count should remain simply the number of projectiles without considering the damage losses. Ivan247Talk Page 09:00, August 18, 2015 (UTC) When looking at a Fire weapon's stats even a casual reader will know that there is more than likely some form of chance of the damage splashing out even if there's only one bullet. Yeah, the damage can splash out from the Poison Claw easily, but it's not going to affect any enemy 3 times over in a single trigger. A reader that just glances when there's no projectile count will immediately know that's the most to expect it to do to a single enemy. A reader that reads the fine print after their initial glance will probably deduce that the attack merely has a chance of splashing out, but will not affect any one enemy three times. RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 09:11, August 18, 2015 (UTC) ...Should there be primary/secondary projectile amount columns? They might solve this problem, and also be useful when choosing a weapon or just for helping readers understand the description. Where the party's at [[User:$igma|'Σ']] 02:38, August 19, 2015 (UTC) :Nice one. I'm supporting this idea. Ivan247Talk Page 05:02, August 19, 2015 (UTC) ::Okay, I'll add them. A few questions, though: when a Sniper shoots an arrow, the arrow shot is the primary attack while the magical attack that appears after the arrow disappears is the secondary attack. What would the primary attack for melees be? If it's the "swing" of a Boxer's arm/Gladiator's sword/Whipper's whip, then every melee weapon would have 1 primary attack. If it's the magical attack after the MP bar has filled, I don't think there is a single weapon with an attack after that, and there would be no secondary attacks for any of the weapons. ::My second question is, should we count residual attacks such as the clouds from the Pyramid Arrow 5 and similar weapons? Since the amount of them can easily change, should that be a separate note, or just not included at all? ::My third question: what about Priests? I don't think I need to add any explanation. ::It seems like we need a different amount of columns for each class page, unless you want them to be consistent. Where the party's at [[User:$igma|'Σ']] 01:19, August 20, 2015 (UTC) :: 1. Primary attack for Snipers is the arrows. Primary attack for melees are the "swings". So yes, the multiple projectiles of melees are all about the secondary projectile. :: 2. It's difficult to define projectile count for stuff like Pyramid Arrow 5's residue. I played with a debugger and modified values in the game. I found that when the attack is set to produce residues like Pyramid Arrow 5 the value that is supposed to be projectile count becomes a rate number that controls how rapidly the residues are produced. :::EDIT: More info: The rate number for Pyramid Arrow 5 is 30. I can change the Pyramid arrow to produce 30 poison clouds clumped together like the Poison Arrow, or make them spread out slightly like the Flame Arrow. Also I changed the rate number to 2 and the poison gas count reduced drastically. Ivan247Talk Page 07:24, August 20, 2015 (UTC) :: 3. Nuff said. Staves produces one attack per enemy within range. Ivan247Talk Page 04:58, August 20, 2015 (UTC) ::: I came up with a solution to the width problem, but it has drawbacks. We could use the image of the enemy, like on the attack pages, in place of the items in the "Dropped by" column. ::: Pro: The table itself is skinnier, as I said. ::: Pro: It should be easier for people to see which enemy drops it, since people remember what the enemy looks like better than its technical name (and saves having to assemble the enemy from the name in our minds). ::: Pro: It looks better for the page, in my opinion. ::: Con: The name isn't immediately available. The quickest way to get the name is by mousing-over the image. ::: Con: The location of the enemy isn't immediately available. However, this can be easily fixed by adding the acronym of the location (Grassland 1=GL1, for example) beside or underneath the image. ::: Con: Larger enemies may make the table too large to fit every column on, similar to the problem we're having now, and could make the row quite large and ugly. ::::For those huge 9x size enemies, I think we can use the image in the book which is reduced to 4x size. Ivan247Talk Page 06:39, September 5, 2015 (UTC) :::I haven't tried it yet to see if it would work, but what do you think? If you agree that we should use enemy images instead, should we try them on the Compo pages etc., as well? :::As for the amount of columns, how should it be done? For example, the Boxer can have one extra column named "Secondary attacks" or it can have two more columns, the other named "Primary attacks", but the Primary attacks column would have all 1s. Priests would have 1 primary attack for each staff except the Electric Staff 5, which would have 3, and no secondary attacks at all. I suppose we don't have to include it and instead say "Attack per enemy" as the column heading. But I digress. Should only the necessary columns be in the table, or both Primary and Secondary attacks for consistency reasons (Staves being an exception)? :::One last thing: should I include the rate number as the secondary attack, or include the poison cloud produced after contact with the enemy and add the rate number as a note somehow? Missile 5 (assuming the clouds are the secondary attack) is simpler: include the rate number, or leave it blank, 0, N/A, or "-"? Where the party's at [[User:$igma|'Σ']] 19:41, August 20, 2015 (UTC) ::: Including the necessary columns is enough. For stuff like Pyramid Arrow or Charge Chakram I think I will write "N/A" or "Varies" or something like that. Missile clouds are just effects and it can simply be written as "-" or "N/A". Ivan247Talk Page 05:04, August 21, 2015 (UTC) :::You said that if you lower the value to "2" for Pyramid Arrow 5, the rate of cloud production goes way down. Does this mean that the rate indicates how many are produced within 50 frames? I think for the attacks that constantly generate Bonus AT, you should put "Constant" in the blue text that displays a secondary comment when the cursor is hovered over it like in the drop rate template, " ". The secondary comment can be used to tell how many bullets are produced every 1s. At least, that's what I think would work best going by what I know. One thing I am 100% sure about: putting "N/A" for anything will quite likely be confusing to readers, especially casual readers. Since the smoke trail of the Missile 5 literally does nothing, it may actually be best to simply not even mention it as Bonus AT because well it's not Bonus AT. It's a purely aesthetic effect. Granted, as hacking high-projectile count weapons to have low AGI shows, there does seem to be a limit on how many bullets (player+enemy combined) can be on-screen simultaneously. I'm not sure if it's possible to hit that limit without hacking yet, so if it is possible without hacking then no doubt even the harmless smoke clouds contribute to that limit. If this is the case, then maybe the constant smoke cloud production count should be listed after all. If it is possible, then getting 4 Magicians with at least 30 DEX using Electric Shock with Bullet's Card 6 and Quick's Card 5 would probably be the best way to do it that I can think of. RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 00:09, August 22, 2015 (UTC) Did more trials. It seems that the rate number is "% chance of residue per frame". When I increase the rate number to 100 the arrow left a purple trail that fades off smoothly, I believe there is a cloud produced every frame and then they disappear one by one each frame causing a smooth fade out. Ivan247Talk Page 03:48, August 22, 2015 (UTC) The basic point of what I said before still stands then, just with "% chance of residue per frame" instead of "per 1s". Another set of questions though; would it be theoretically possible for ha55ii to create a weapon that generates multiple residue with a certain % chance per frame (ex. 5 clouds with a 10% chance per frame), or does the code not support this possibility? If the code does support the possibility, would the weapon accept Bullet's Card as a result? Is there any chance that you could provide .gifs of what it would look like if the "Charge" weapons for the Angel would look like with their % chances ramped up to 100%? (Last question just 'cause I think that would be cool to see, all preceding questions more serious). RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 04:10, August 22, 2015 (UTC) I think that is hardcoded. When you choose the "residue mode", the bullet counts are automatically seen as the rate and the weapon will not accept Bullet's Card if the residue attack is seen by the Bullet's Card (i.e. the Bullet's Card uses this to determine whether it can be equipped). For the question, sure, use "Constant" or "Residual" then a tip saying "X% chance to spawn a residue per frame". And Angel's Stuff... I tried Charge Chakram 6, looks similar to the original (rate 50) and just denser, but in terms of damage it is more destructive of course. Ivan247Talk Page 06:57, August 22, 2015 (UTC) Okay, so an attack that uses constant bullet production will never accept Bullet's Card. There isn't a way to trick the code into creating multiple bullets every frame it procs then, even if doing so won't allow Bullet's Card to be equipped to it? As for the Angel's stuff, the higher density and destruction is exactly what I think would look really cool (do excuse the pun) and thus want to see for myself. Honestly, the aesthetics of the magical attacks are more than half of what draw me into Stick Ranger. The aesthetics of the MB Magician's Electric Chain is a big part of what kept me coming back to MB for a good long while, though staring at the same sunset for too long does make said sunset not seem as beautiful anymore. The sheer density that the MB Magician's Electric Chain can reach along with how badly it devastates the enemies is what I was drawn to, though now I want to see other attacks reach a high density and really devastate enemies. What I'm craving next is an Ice- or Freeze-type weapon doing just that. I know because last time I picked up SR I had a 2-Priest 2-Magician team and just hacked in a couple Freeze Explosions from the get-go just to see how dense and powerful I could get those to be without any hacking other than of course hacking in the Freeze Explosions and their respective compos (Bullet's Card 6 + Quick's Card 5). Of course, since range is the game in SR, there's not much way that I could've focused on MAG instead of STR. I got bored when Snowfield 1's boss just 1-hit KO'd the team from afar; killing from afar is my game thank you very much White Boss X Walker. That's another draw MB has for me; I'', and I alone, do the killing of stuff. It starts slow though and I often GAME OVER trying to keep up the action on the screen. Yeah, sometimes I'm in the mood for the challenge aspect of SR, but other times I just want straight-up power and action. By the way, uh, "residue mode"? I should hope any weapon that claims to have Bonus AT leaves residue at some point! ;P Maybe better names for the modes would be "impact mode" and "continuous mode". (; At least I still understood what you actually meant! >;P 'RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 07:35, August 22, 2015 (UTC)'''